and retracted Considering that she has already been through one round of unsuccessful ortho, I think the time for half-measures is over. Given this degree of procumbency, there is no chance of over-retraction when pitting the 4-4 against the 7s (you will need the 8s for adequate retraction). Either surgically or non-surgically, the key is to optimize incisor position and inclination. To do this you will need a good amount of linear and angular retraction. Like Charles recommends a set-up would be a great idea. In addition, if you are conflicted, a VTO can help quantify the degree of incisor change etc. A genioplasty in addition to the extractions might be another option. I've attached an example of this type of retraction with super-impositions. The initial inclinations and positions are like those in your case. Also see the attached article by John Bilodeau. A similar case in terms of incisor position/inclination and very well-treated. ■ 5/28/2017 Share advice-or ask questions- at Orthotown.com Search: "Treatment Alternatives" Do you agree with what these Townies have suggested as treatment? Share your opinion (and any relative case studies) online and keep the conversation going. Head to orthotown.com and search "treatment alternatives"- this message board will be the top result. orthotown.com \\ SEPTEMBER 2017 25http://www.Orthotown.com http://www.orthotown.com http://www.orthotown.com