ASHRAE Journal - November 2021 - 34

ROUNDTABLE
especially in the south where installers were grabbing
their jug of propane from their gas grill and charging
these household refrigerators, and they were getting an
evaporator leak. In those old systems, they had a defrost
heater in that evaporator. If that evaporator leaked and
that defrost heater kicked on, boom, their refrigerator
blows up. I got a lot of pictures of these over the years.
The AHJ would say what, " What happened? " I go, " They
probably charged it with propane. "
Kujak: So, I hear we're going to put left-handed
threads on bottles. How are we going to prevent a
workaround on the unit if they still have right-handed
threads on the cylinder?
VerShaw: Well, that's actually a discussion we've
been having. Just because you have threads one way or
another doesn't mean somebody can't rig something
up to work with whatever threads they encounter. I
don't think that's a big deal. I think the other issue on
retrofit is the EPA's SNAP rule for A2Ls, in air conditioning
anyway. EPA says it's only approved for use in new
equipment.
Grider: So, as a hypothetical here, what happens if
the installer changes out the outdoor unit to one that's
approved for A2L, and then goes inside and does the
necessary changes, maybe just swaps out the coil. Does
that meet the definition of what's required in Standard
15 and Standard 15.2P currently?
VerShaw: Well, Standard 15.2P and I think Standard
15 both say that the indoor and the outdoor units need
to be certified for the refrigerants being used. So you
won't find R-32, or R-454B, or R-452B on any indoor unit
right now. So, the indoor coil needs to changed to one
that is certified for flammables, and of course ASHRAE
Standard 15 and ASHRAE Standard 15.2P require a UL
listing. That's how the rules are set up.
Greg Relue: What Craig and Jim said is correct. If a
new A2L condensing unit and a new uncased coil are
tested to the same refrigerant as the condensing unit by
the manufacturers and labeled for the given refrigerant,
it can be installed per Standard 15 or Standard 15.2P.
Rodgers: I think there's still a huge concern about the
interconnecting line set because typically they're behind
walls and you can't see them. In one of those things, if
we have a joint outside that space, it needs to be put in a
vented chase. We don't know these line sets. We've been
arguing for years: do we make them replace the line set,
even though we know they probably won't? But we don't
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ASHRAE JOURNAL ashrae.o rg N O V E M B E R 2021
know if there's a joint in there, and it could be a leaky
joint.
VerShaw: That's why Standard 15.2P in their piping
section requires substantially more in terms of pressure
testing and vacuum testing than has been done in the
past-to ensure if that you're going to use existing piping,
or if you're putting in new piping, that you have all the
joints done appropriately, and they are going to hold up.
Tharp: Jim VerShaw on the Standard 15.2P group did a
good job of putting those testing requirements together.
That'll help validate that there's not a leak in a wall
somewhere.
Butsch: In EPA SNAP Rule 23 they did allow for reuse
of existing tubing. But every other component (compressor,
evaporator, condenser) needs to be new. I agree
that Standard 15.2P did a great job. Now we have to
make sure that the training gets out there to the people
in the field. The documents have been well vetted and
put together and thought through. But communicating
and training folks in the field is really where the rubber
meets the road, so to speak.
Kujak: The previous roundtable we did on refrigerant
regulation, when we talked to Andrea Voigt, Director
General of the European Partnership for Energy and the
Environment in Brussels, Belgium, she said the biggest
gap they have is training. Obviously, we're probably not
well trained right now in the U.S.
Tharp: The Refrigeration Service Engineers Society,
has had a training program for several years for flammable
refrigerants. The industry is working very hard
to make sure there are training programs available.
Anybody can go today to North American Technician
Excellence's (NATE) website, to Air Conditioning
Contractors of America (ACCA), to other such organizations
for training programs for A2Ls. And, we obviously
know that most OEMs will have their own programs in
addition to what these other entities provide.
Grider: Then, from a standpoint of meeting the standard
requirements, you've got UL and others that are
training the manufacturers, because the manufacturers
need to understand what the certification body and the
test agencies are going to require. We're the ones that
are interpreting UL-60335-2-40 and UL 60335-2-89. So,
we train the manufacturers who then in turn, like Rusty
said as the OEMs, can train their engineers, so that the
design practices are met. Then, they can train the industry
as needed.
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