Theatre Design & Technology - Oct 1967 - 36

being efficient. You say, "Well, what the hell, you can pay $ 60.00 and
that's the law. Pay $60.00. Why pay more?" You see, Mr. Cohen, in
certain cases, must pay the minimum. He can't say. "Well, I'm sorry
about this guy. I know he has a wife and tWO kids. He's a very nice
chap. I know he is only playing a walk-on here and he only has two
lines, and I'm going to pay him $50.00 above the minimum." That is
being inefficient. It has nothing to do with his personal feelings, but
that's the way the operation workS efficiently. So we say, "OK.
Sl 50.00." We pay more than double the minimum that's required. All
it means is to say. "Now I have to get the dough from some source to
pay a decent wage." There is nothing free; everything has to be subsidIZed. But this is the principle you establish. Then, somebody says,
"Gee, I have a great idea. Why not charge a quarter in Central Park?"
They think it's a great notion. Well, I wouldn't give it away that cheaply;
I wouldn't give it away for $ 5.00. I would rather give it away for noth·
ing in the park than pay less than what it costs. If I am going to charge,
I will charge the going rate. The principle involved here is actually a
point of view about new audiences. You keep talking about these small
lowns; there are interesting people in some of these small towns, but
you must get to a lot of new people who haven't yet been exposed
to the theatre. If you depend on the same tired, bourgeoise audience
there, you are never going to change the theatre. The mobile theatre
goes around and touches audiences who have never been eX~Qsed. There
is the new audience that you have to reach. And so I say :hat efficiency
is a very funny word; it depends on how you want to apply it and under
what terms. In terms of the physical operation, we are as efficient as
any operation in the United States. It all depends on the philosophical
outlook.
SCHNITZER: I would like to rise in defense of efficiency in the regional
theatre.
I must speak personally, from the standpoint of the administrator's responsibility, of the difference between your budget and mine. What I
wish to say comprises two items. In the first place, I am running five
accounts throughout the year because the University 01 Michigan breaks
down OUf program into the touring attractions, the resident company
(the APAI, the new play proiects, the operation of theatres and so on.
However, there are two items in my accounts that are not included in
yours. One, we project the receipts from our box office income; and the
other, we proiect a certain defiCit which is allocated. If we exceed that
deficit we are in as much trouble as you are. Not only from the vicepresident for business and finance (whose warm eye is said to be the
glass eye), but also from the legislature of the state. It is perfectly posSible, once you predicate the fact that this is gOing to be a deficit opera·
tion, to say, "All right. but we are gOing to hold the deficit at this
point." So far in this unpredictable business we have come in under our
deficit for five years. My point is that this can be done and is being
done in the regional theatre, not only in New York.
I don't know how to explain the things one reads about Minneapolis,
but 011 the other hand, I am sure that Zelda Fichandler down in Washington has been coming in under her budget, whatever it is-whether or
not it includes subsidy year after year. Of course, to round out this
theme for any student or for our Professional Fellows in management, it
must be recognized that Broadway management does have excellent techniques and that these IllUSt be learned and then applied or adapted to
whatever situation you get into, whether it is regional theatre or the
communi tv theatre or anything else.
MODERATOR: We have time for one more question on this subject.
QUESTION: What about the possibility of getting to the leading New
York theatres or to a league of some stock theatres and opening up
their minds to the idea of apprenticing these people?
COHEN: Well, I think the league would welcome any plan that would
take people seriously interested in theatre management and encourage
them to observe and to apprentice 111 that field. I think each individual
or producer who is a member is looking for such people. I know we are,
constantly. I know Merrick is, I know Prince is. We need people who
want to be managers. Unfortunately, they have to apprentice our way,
and a lot of people don't want to do this. You'd be surprised how many
people want to be in management in the theatre and yet not work the
9:00 A.M. to midnight seven days a week. Absolutely. Unions which
have large older memberships make tough apprentice rules because the
old fellows want the iobs and they think they're entitled to them on the
basis of seniority. This is a problem, a serious problem, that American
communities are facing today. But I think that, within the union limitations imposed upon us, we have worked out generally good methods of
teaching and training people for and in the theatre. But don'l forget,
you've got ten producers and only half of them may want apprentices.
So there may be five openings in this entire field. Also, I'm very serious
when I say that many of the people want these iobs until they find out
the amount of guts you have to have and the amount of time and labor
you have to put in. Now apprenticing as a press agent's easy. They can
go to a press agent's office five days a week, for six or seven hours a

day, probably pick enough up in a year. But management is two and onehalf to three years, seven days a week, and I'm not kidding about the
9:00 A.M. to midnight shift.
MODERATOR: We'll pick up two more questions.
QUESTION: I have observed that in the discussion we have been using
the terms theatre manager and administratOr in the same breath_ In my
personal opinion, there is Quite a difference between a theatre manager
and an administrator. It's been said that many theatre managers come
from among performing people; it has also been said that many administrators come from among business managers. There is a vast difference
between an administrator and a business manager. Now several countries,
including the United States and Canada, are developing state and regional
and university councils, all of which require administrators. Where are
the administrators for these arts councils, cultural centers, and universities] Where do they come from?
BEDESSEM: That's one of the questions that I said we would have to
answer. I really don't know where they come from. Five years ago there
were maybe ten state arts councils. Today there are fifty-four, and about
forty or forty-five of them have full-time executive directors. I really don't
know where they came from. I am trying to find out. They might be
Sam's brother-in-law. I don't know. Some of them are very good and
some of them are not so good.
LANDRY: I can't comment on your question directly, but it seems to
me that there is a great tendency in our time to want to license everybody. You make him pass certain CUrriculum standards and then give
him a license; and if you don't have a license, you can't practice. Really
I don't admire this tendency at all. Why should you know where a theatre manager comes from? Or where a genius comes from? You can not
predict it. Alex Cohen and others have been busy explaining what kinds
of things a manager or a producer or a showman has to deal with. It's
all unpredictable. Nuts to this idea of licensing everybody that practices.

SCHNITZER: Roger Stevens, a few months ago, held a conference that dealt with this same question of where managers are to come from. Finally, after a lot of discussion,
specifically listing the characteristics of a great artistic director, it was recognized that all you can do is to give people
some technique, some training. Then out of the base of the
pyramid finally rises one excellent manager. You are never
going to pick a Rudolph Bing at the age of twenty-five and
say that this man, in thirty years, is going to be head of
the Met. An administrator comes naturally out of the mass
of people or the group of people who are in the profession.
But what you can do is give those who seem to have talent,
and the guts and willingness to break their backs, some
training, some aim, some ideals, and some experience.
To come back to your question, the overall arts administrator
for the arts councils and similar bodies will perhaps develop
from a very knowledgeable person who has been managing
or administering a theatre, a ballet company, or a museum.
Let's say such a person might be one who has specialized
in one field but has a very wide knowledge and some experience in other arts. When he gets up there towards the
next to the top layer of the pyramid, he becomes the obvious person to take over the head of that organization.
MODERATOR: Thank you, Mr. Schnitzer for your excellent
summation. We will conclude here. Thank you very much.

ruillD THEATRE DESIGN AND TECHNOLOGY

Table of Contents for the Digital Edition of Theatre Design & Technology - Oct 1967