Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 73

Investment Management provides consulting
services to Ellevest.) She is also owner
and chairwoman of Ellevate Network, a global
network of women committed to promoting
gender equality in the workplace.
Krawcheck discussed Ellevest's mission on the
Feb. 26 episode of Morningstar's The Long View
podcast, and the following conversation is adapted
from the transcript; it has been edited for
length and clarity.
Jeffrey Ptak: You focus on helping women achieve

gender equality in the workplace and in their finances.
Let's start with the gender pay gap.

Sallie Krawcheck: At Ellevest, we're all about
getting more money in the hands of women.
It's about getting women to parity in comparison
to men. On the gender pay gap, there's been
some progress, but it's not nearly enough. We're
decades away from white women earning
at a similar rate to white men, we are 100-plus
years away for black women, and we're
200-plus years away for Latinx women. There

have been so many books and articles and
podcasts encouraging women, cheering women
on, giving women lots of advice on how
to be forceful, but not too forceful, and ambitious,
but maybe not too ambitious. It really is time for
institutions to take a good hard look at how
they are going to make, not incremental changes,
but significant changes if they want to be
employers of choice.
Christine Benz: Most states have banned the

practice of companies asking prospective employees
about salary history, for example. Does that help?

Krawcheck: It's a step. When we're going
to give a salary offer to someone, if we know what
they made before, we end up anchoring in it.
"They're making $50,000; maybe I don't have to pay
$60,000." But I think it's just one issue. Another
that I would point out is that women are socialized
not to negotiate aggressively. If you give an
offer to someone and they don't negotiate, you're
never going to give them more money.

These issues are so challenging. At Ellevest
not so long ago, we gave an offer to a male and
a female engineer for exactly the same type
of role. He negotiated; she didn't. We ended up
giving him additional pay-and giving her that as
well, because it is the exact same job.
Ptak: What are some steps that women can take

to negotiate more aggressively?

Sallie Krawcheck, CEO and cofounder of
Ellevest, and owner and chair of Ellevate
Network.

Krawcheck: I think it's the companies that
should do better. Companies should say, here's
our pay gap. We, as a company, recognize
that women have been socialized not to negotiate
as much. We, as a company, recognize that
individuals within this company, within middle
management, have been brought up with the
view that men are better at x and y. The research
is clear that white men are promoted based
on potential and women and people of color are
promoted based on achievement. The bar has
historically been higher for people outside of the
business majority. We recognize that these
biases play into offers and promotions and raises,
and, therefore, we are going to close all the gender
and racial and ethnic pay gaps. I apologize
for not answering your question, but if the answer
were women doing better and trying harder,
we would already be at pay parity. Women are

doing their part. It's the companies that need
to close this darn thing.
Benz: That pay gap contributes to a lifetime earnings
differential between men and women with
similar educational attainment. How do the breaks that
women take from working contribute to this?

Krawcheck: We live in a patriarchal society, and
our society dictates to us that women take
more career breaks, that women are the caregivers.
It is at the point when a woman has her first
child that the pay gap really opens up. Women
step out of the workforce for a year or two,
which obviously impacts their earnings not only in
those two years but in the years after.

Sometimes, families are driven into choices
that are not true choices. Society still dictates that
it's a woman's place, not a man's place,
to provide childcare, and businesses also dictate
it. Many businesses today may provide a maternity
leave but not a leave for the father or the
nonprimary caregiver.
Ptak: What approaches do you favor for addressing

these issues?

Krawcheck: I'll tell you what we've done at
Ellevest. We're a startup, so every dollar
is precious as we work to reach scale. We have
for both primary and nonprimary caregivers
12 weeks of paid parental leave-and the dads
and the moms take it. The initial recommendation
from our people-ops group was something
like 12 weeks for the primary caregiver
and six weeks for the nonprimary. As we talked
through it as a leadership team, we said
we are just about to put in place a mommy track.
The research is clear that when women
take these leaves and men don't, the women are
mommy-tracked. No way was Ellevest going
to do this.

The research tells you that paid parental leaves
pay for themselves in one year. The mental
mistake we make is that we think of paid parental
leave as being an expense when, in fact, it's an
investment. Because if you provide this, the
parents are more likely to come back and stay. And
if you don't, they are more likely to quit, which
means you not only have to replace them, you
have to train their replacement.

morningstar.com/lp/magazine

73


http://www.morningstar.com/lp/magazine

Morningstar - Q2 2020

Table of Contents for the Digital Edition of Morningstar - Q2 2020

Contents
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - CT1
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - CT2
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - Cover1
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - Cover2
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 1
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 2
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - Contents
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 4
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 5
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 6
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 7
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 8
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 9
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 10
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 11
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 12
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 13
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 14
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 15
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 16
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 17
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 18
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 19
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 20
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 21
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 22
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 23
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 24
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 25
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 26
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 27
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 28
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 29
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 30
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 31
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 32
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 33
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 34
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 35
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 36
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 37
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 38
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 39
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 40
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 41
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 42
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 43
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 44
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 45
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 46
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 47
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 48
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 49
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 50
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 51
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 52
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 53
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 54
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 55
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 56
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 57
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 58
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 59
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 60
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 61
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 62
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 63
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 64
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 65
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 66
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 67
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 68
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 69
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 70
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 71
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 72
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 73
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 74
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 75
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 76
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 77
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 78
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 79
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 80
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 81
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 82
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 83
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 84
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 85
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 86
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 87
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 88
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 89
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 90
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 91
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 92
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 93
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 94
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 95
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - 96
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - Cover3
Morningstar - Q2 2020 - Cover4
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2024q2
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2024q1
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2023q4
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2023q3
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2023q2
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2023q1
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2022q4
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2022q3
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2022q2
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2022q1
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2021q4
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2021q3
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2021q2
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2021q1
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2020q4
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2020q3
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2020q2
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2020q1
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2019winter
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2019fall
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2019summer
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_2019spring
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20191201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20181011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20180809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20180607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20180405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20180203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20181201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20171011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20170809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20170607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20170405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20170203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20171201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20161011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20160809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20160607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20160405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20160203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20161201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20151011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20150809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20150607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20150405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20150203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20151201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20141011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20140809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20140607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20140405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/magazine_20140203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20141201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20131011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20130809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20130607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20130405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20130203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20131201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20121011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20120809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20120607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20120405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/investorconference2012
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20120203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20121201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20111011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20110809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20110607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20110405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20110203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20111201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20101011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20100809_lincoln
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20100809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20100607_lincoln
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20100607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20100405_lincoln
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20100405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20100203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20101201
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20091011
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20090809
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20090607
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20090405
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_20090203
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2008fall
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2008summer
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2007spring
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2007fall
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2007summer
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2008spring
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2008catalog
https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/morningstar/advisor_2008winter
https://www.nxtbookmedia.com