Recording - January 2014 - 52

Continued from page 51
pay you for that, but the thing is, they've now
decided that they want to get into the Indie artist
world and they may or may not pay you upfront.
That's what I'm trying to say. So, you know, yes,
it's great if you if you can get $500-$1,000 for your
library track or your independent artist track
upfront and they own the copyright. But how
many people are actually in an exclusive independent licensing catalog that's not attached to a
library that you're getting paid for that copyright,
to own it, that they own it? I mean, I'd like to know
if there are companies out there that do ...
Adam: That would be a standard publishing
company.
Tanvi: That would be a standard publishing
company, but it's not film and TV only. You're
getting paid for a copyright that they are going to
try to exploit in all areas. So, I think there's room
for all these types of companies to exist and you as
a composer or artist have to decide which one's
better for you. It's not like that one thing is bad
versus another. I think what happens is these
exclusive companies, not necessarily publishing
companies like Warner/Chappell and you know
the ones that are out there pitching your stuff to
radio artists and getting you greater airplay and
that sort of thing. It's like when there's a certain
group of people decide that just because the nonexclusives are cutting into their business, all of a
sudden, it's the bad model. Like ...
Adam: But there are other concerns from the
artist's perspective. For example, if as I think in
the future ...
Which hat are you wearing at the moment? Artist
hat?
Adam: I think I'm wearing artist hat. Yes, artist
hat.
We should have brought you different hats in different colors.
Adam: If ultimately the PROs are going to start
collecting on the digital fingerprinting or watermarking basis ...
Tanvi: Oh, I'm glad you brought that up.
Adam: Uh, oh. Then sort of the house of cards
falls down if you're gonna start collecting ... Imagine if you Shazam the song on the radio and 10
different titles come up. If ASCAP moves to start
monitoring the usage of your music based on fingerprinting technology, how are they going to
keep track of ... you know it's going to register as
10 different songs, right?
52

You'd have to. Each one of those non-exclusives
would have to have its own fingerprint.
Adam: Right.
Isn't that doable?
Adam: No, that's watermarking. That's ...

agree on a specific fingerprinting technology and
substantial revenue from the PROs comes from the
international PROs and they depend on cue sheets.
Adam: But they also depend on sub-publishers,
which might require an exclusive deal, so how do
you deal with the international sub-publisher?
Good question. Which hat are you wearing now?

Tanvi: Which is .... Watermarking is if they want
to do it as the real, valid way of doing it.
Adam: But that's not how ASCAP is planning to
do it.
Tanvi: They're not planning to do anything at
the moment. I've talked to them over this past
year. I've talked to both ASCAP and BMI and
there are issues with fingerprinting. The first issue
is from a technology point. It's dirty audio. And
dirty audio is when an audio file has more than
just the music on it, which would be dialogue,
sound effects, etc. So identifying the actual track
becomes a lot more difficult. And what can happen, say the most recognizable music element is a
sample drum loop and there are thousands of
songs that have that sample drum loop, but only
the supplier registered that fingerprint with a PRO
or with that identifying source. Then all those
placements from all those songs that have that
same drum loop, all that money will go to that
one person that registered their track.
Alternatively, if they identified multiple songs,
multiple songs have been registered, then it
becomes not an automated system, but it requires
heads to listen to the track and that's kind of
messy and it's also costly to ASCAP who is the
PRO who is trying to efficiently identify performances. With TuneSat, yes it works, yes it
registers millions of uses for songs out there. This
is the second problem with fingerprinting. And
watermarking, actually. You cannot identify the
type of use without listening to it. The only thing
that would ever happen is to have all the networks
watermark or fingerprint each individual
program, ad, or promo that airs on their network.
And then you can match up where something
aired. Now, why is this an issue? Because ASCAP
and BMI and SESAC, they have their ways of paying out based on the use. The type of use it is.
Nobody's come up with a solution for that and yes
... I've seen the TuneSat reports. You can click a
"listen" button and hear the spot and hear that,
but it takes a person to sit there and go through
and listen to that, just like their surveys that they
do for the radio ads right now. They use surveys.
So, it's not a 100% solution to the problem.
Tanvi: There are a couple more things about it.
Internationally, it's really hard to get the PROs to

Adam: I don't even know.
[laughter]
Adam: A sombrero. [laughter]
Tanvi: I like this guy.
So do I. That's why I hired him.
Adam: But don't a lot of the international subpublishers require some kind of exclusivity? So
isn't there going to be a problem collecting international royalties if you have your song in 10
different non-exclusive ...
Tanvi: Well, you have to talk to ... I mean ... we
don't have sub-publishers. I don't have an issue
with that. I've looked at sub-publishers. You
know, some of them are OK with it. You know,
some of them aren't. Again, it's like trying to find
the right path. It's a type of business model you're
running. You talked about blanket deals. So why
did Jingle Punks decide, all of a sudden, to start an
exclusive library? I bet, maybe 70-80 % of their
income is based on blanket agreements with the
networks, and as I mentioned before, it's a viable
reason for a network not to buy into a non-exclusive because they are paying more than once for
the same song [because that song could be in multiple catalogs that they do blanket agreements for
- Ed.]. So, their business model requires that they
have to start an exclusive catalog in order to keep
that revenue coming into their doors.
Couldn't the argument be made that the networks
could say, "I know that I'm going to get roughly 30%
of this music is going to be duplicate from another
library so I'm going to give you 30% less"?
Tanvi: Yeah, they could work around that. Or,
they ...
And that devalues music.

Tanvi: Again, there goes that interplay between
the client. But you're always negotiating. The
value of music is a negotiation. There's always

Continued on page 55



Recording - January 2014

Table of Contents for the Digital Edition of Recording - January 2014

Contents
Recording - January 2014 - Cover1
Recording - January 2014 - Cover2
Recording - January 2014 - 1
Recording - January 2014 - 2
Recording - January 2014 - 3
Recording - January 2014 - 4
Recording - January 2014 - 5
Recording - January 2014 - Contents
Recording - January 2014 - 7
Recording - January 2014 - 8
Recording - January 2014 - 9
Recording - January 2014 - 10
Recording - January 2014 - 11
Recording - January 2014 - 12
Recording - January 2014 - 13
Recording - January 2014 - 14
Recording - January 2014 - 15
Recording - January 2014 - 16
Recording - January 2014 - 17
Recording - January 2014 - 18
Recording - January 2014 - 19
Recording - January 2014 - 20
Recording - January 2014 - 21
Recording - January 2014 - 22
Recording - January 2014 - 23
Recording - January 2014 - 24
Recording - January 2014 - 25
Recording - January 2014 - 26
Recording - January 2014 - 27
Recording - January 2014 - 28
Recording - January 2014 - 29
Recording - January 2014 - 30
Recording - January 2014 - 31
Recording - January 2014 - 32
Recording - January 2014 - 33
Recording - January 2014 - 34
Recording - January 2014 - 35
Recording - January 2014 - 36
Recording - January 2014 - 37
Recording - January 2014 - 38
Recording - January 2014 - 39
Recording - January 2014 - 40
Recording - January 2014 - 41
Recording - January 2014 - 42
Recording - January 2014 - 43
Recording - January 2014 - 44
Recording - January 2014 - 45
Recording - January 2014 - 46
Recording - January 2014 - 47
Recording - January 2014 - 48
Recording - January 2014 - 49
Recording - January 2014 - 50
Recording - January 2014 - 51
Recording - January 2014 - 52
Recording - January 2014 - 53
Recording - January 2014 - 54
Recording - January 2014 - 55
Recording - January 2014 - 56
Recording - January 2014 - 57
Recording - January 2014 - 58
Recording - January 2014 - 59
Recording - January 2014 - 60
Recording - January 2014 - 61
Recording - January 2014 - 62
Recording - January 2014 - 63
Recording - January 2014 - 64
Recording - January 2014 - 65
Recording - January 2014 - 66
Recording - January 2014 - 67
Recording - January 2014 - 68
Recording - January 2014 - 69
Recording - January 2014 - 70
Recording - January 2014 - 71
Recording - January 2014 - 72
Recording - January 2014 - Cover3
Recording - January 2014 - Cover4
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