Recording - May 2017 - 56

sion or whatever. So yeah, probably about half
as many cues... 30, something like that.

Continued from page 55
library and saying, "Go for it," I would actually
hand-pick cues from these libraries, not give
them the whole drive. Then I'd create sub-categories for the genres of music. For instance, I'd
create an upbeat folder, and then within that I'd
sort it into pop/rock, hip-hop, electronic, EDM,
club-pop EDM, and then those folders would go
into the folders that the editors would use while
editing. Then it would be up to the editors to go
through those music files and try to find the
best pieces for those particular scenes.
Yeah, that makes sense. So you may start out
with, I'm guessing, somewhere in the 3,000-to20,000 range of total music, and you have to go
through and kind of skim the list looking for
upbeat or horrific or tension or comedic, and build
all those sub-folders that you would later hand off
to Dave.
By the way, I want to mention that Jon is about as
world-class as you get being a music supervisor for
reality television, so I'm grateful that when he
gets a 30-day window between shows or something, he's often at TAXI screening your music.
We're glad to have you, Jon. I really enjoy having
you under the roof at TAXI.
Jon: Thank you.
OK, so we've gotten spotting session done and
we've gotten the stuff being curated by you for
David McIntosh or one of the other editors. How
many cues do you guys typically use per episode
on average?
Jon: It depends. A show like The Challenge
probably had 60 to 70 cues per episode; something like I Am Cait, quite a bit less.
Dave: Half as many on I Am Cait, because we'd
let the scenes play longer. We wanted the dialogue and the picture to go a little longer. That's
the way the EPs [executive producers], the post-

"A show like Challenge probably had
60 to 70 cues per episode; something
like I Am Cait, quite a bit less."
-Jonathan Weiss, Music Supervisor
producers, and the network wanted it on that
show. For something like The Challenge for
MTV, I'm looking for a reason to get out of the
cue in 30 to 45 seconds, and then going into
another one. So yeah, it's pretty much two cues
a minute on The Challenge for MTV. Not always,
but it can go that way.
Jon: It was wall-to-wall. Like what Dave said, on
I Am Cait they wanted to let the dialogue
breathe and not be wall-to-wall comedy or ten56

OK, so now you've done the pre-selection and subfolders of different things and you've given it to
Dave... maybe with some overall direction. Do
you just hand him the drives with that direction
and he goes to work laying the stuff in? Or do you
give him specific things? Like you may pre-tag,
"This comedic cue would be great for scene two at
6 minutes, 34 seconds, and 21 frames"?
Jon: I'm gonna let Dave handle some of those,
where he gets it and all that. But I can say that
for different shows it is different. I'd say for 70%
of the shows that we've worked on, we would
give the editors loads of cues and sub-genres.
However, The Challenge, it's for MTV, which is a
more music-centric network. I did hand-pick
every single cue, and I got an excel spread sheet
that would say, "When Peter goes up on the
ledge, try this one, and try this lyric." So it was
very specific, whereas, with Kardashians or I Am
Cait, they would have all these sub-genres. And
these guys [the editors] are so amazing, not
only in editing, but being able to pick the right
cue. I'm not there. They only have the sub-genres, and they have to be able to pick, "All right,
I think this requires a tension cue," and they are
all such professionals that they're able to do
that.
Are most editors at least some what, or maybe
even very musical?
Dave: In some way, shape, or form, yeah. I
can't tell you how I picked it up in the 15 years
I've been doing it, but yes. I've known editors
who were past musicians, worked in music, and
then became picture editors. I don't know what
they did, but that was their journey that probably led to where they got it. But it starts with
Jonathan as the music supe going through an
entire library and giving us the 10% of what he's
gone through.
And do you tend to know what his taste would lie
and where his bar is at? Do ever find yourself toggling between two choices and going, "Jonathan
would probably go with this one"?
Dave: Yeah, I do. On Challenge, it was a little
more specific. It really was. He'd create an Excel
spreadsheet, and it was specific as to the time
code where things should go. Even when he's
picked a cue with a lyric up, it was even, "You
need to use this particular vocal for it," as well.
So that really helps. I mean, I'm a big proponent of a very forward thinking music supe. It
makes it a lot easier for me; I think it makes the
show better; you get a different ear. Even
though I'm listening to it, I know I have a tendency to pick similar cues in similar situations.
And Jonathan would go, "No, no, no, we can't
do that over and over again."
That's one of questions on my list. Do many editors-and again this is reality TV-specific-tend

to use the same cues over and over, because they
are so darn good and they stick in your head, and
you know you can rely on them? Do the same cues
get used because of ease of use and the speed of
which it lets you work because you're familiar with
it?
Jon: I try not to use the same cue, but it does
tend to happen where one cue is so good it'll go
from season to season. But there are executives

"It starts with Jonathan as the Music
Supe going through an entire library
and giving us the 10% of what he's
gone through."
-David McIntosh, Video Editor
that don't like you doing that, and they'll give
you notes asking you to change it out for something new. The Challenge was like that...
Dave: Now, on Kardashians, you could use the
same cue episode-to-episode-to-episode and no
one would fight back. But with MTV, it has to
be different all the time.
All right, I think we've got enough background
now. Dave, do you want to start telling us about
now that you've got the music from Jonathan and
all this background has been laid, what do you do
when you go to work?
Dave: I'll listen to it. I'll listen to a whole cue
and try to see if it's more repetitive, or does it
have a lot of layers? Does it start-stop? Does the
energy crank up and plateau and then go back
up? I'll look for those things. And I'll look for
the sting-out. In reality, it has to sting. You cannot have a fade-out in any cue you use. If you do
that, the producer will jump on you real quick.
Does everybody in the room know what a sting-out
is? Or a button ending? Please don't be shy about
raising your hand, I'm curious to know what percentage of you guys don't know what a stinger, a
sting-out or a button ending means. OK, a definition of it is: It's a hard ending, no fade.
Yes, Russell [audience member, asking a
question].
Russell: A sting-out. Does that also include a
ring-out?
Dave: Yeah. Anything that actually just ends
the song in a way. It doesn't necessarily have to
be like a hard thing-which are great-but a
definite end that's not just a fade. That's the big
thing.
It could be a harp crescendo that just rings out; it
could be a snare drum and hi-hat and kick drum all
hitting; it could be a piano chord. Anything that
says, "That's the end." And maybe it has got a note
ringing out, or reverb tailing out.
Continued on page 59

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